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Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court
Follow William Chan but need further help

New MessageSued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
Greeting to all bloggers and friends,

(01) Last 3 weeks ago I have been served with a writ of summon by a bank to appear in court in Magistrate Court pertaining their claims against my outstanding payment of credit card of RM3200.00. Based on the said summon, the bank claims that I have breach the terms and conditions of Line of Credit of the said credit card. For record, sometime in 2003, I have enrolled a credit card application through salesman at a mega mall. My entire particular keyed in by the said salesman and my part is only signing the said application form (of course now I realized how importance to read the agreement before signing it). At that particular of time, the said bank is still in old form not yet merged as nowadays. I never missed any payment to the bank until sometime 2 years ago till now where, still, I didn’t missed the monthly payment just that always pay only minimum payment and sometime less than minimum payment, but hey, at least I did not missed any single payment.

(02) I thought that by keep on paying minimum payment and less will avoid court action but my judgment seems to be swayed out. I have tried to negotiate with the bank sometime 3 or 4 months ago before I received the said summon to restructure the outstanding by applying the banks’ consideration for termed loan. However, the said application only sleeps on their file without any action even not interim reply.

(03) Immediately upon receiving the said summon, I did make a phone call to the said bank asking for negotiation to withdraw the summon and again restructure my outstanding. The bank demand me to pay minimum of RM700.00 to pay within 2 weeks in order for the bank to withdraw the case and the most part that I can’t forget till today when the bank officer at the end of our conversation told me … “next time don’t apply credit card if you cannot afford to pay!!”… (and it become my biggest and hard lesson to be learnt).

(04) After that I keep on looking and searching in books, magazine and surfing internet to find out how to tackle this kind of scenario and thank God, I reached to this fantastic website. Reading all posts and advised, I did bought the “How to represent yourself in court to fight banks” wrote by William Chan. Credit to William Chan on his great job to come up the book. The book becomes my manual.

(05) After gone through the book, I have decided to stand before judge next triple weeks to apply for the extension in order to buy time to figure out how the best way to handle the case. However, I am in dilemma. The book did not teach me :
( a ) How to ask for documents such as old copies of agreement, complete statement of accounts, etc
( b ) How to prepare cross examination. Any checklist?
( c ) What are the holes for fishing, etc….


(06) Now I am quite blur on what are steps that I should do or take. Is there anybody could advise me on this please?

Sincerely

- BRM Chang -
Kuching, Sarawak.

23 Nov, 2010 21:49:16

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) romeo
How did you manage to buy the book in Kuching?
I thot no MPH bookstore in Kuching?
26 Nov, 2010 10:30:46

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
@BRM Chang,

My situation is a lot worse than yours, I owe more than 10 banks more than 200 times the amount you owe, all credit card debt! I got my first summon in Feb 2010, first mention (first time to attend court) was in April. Thanks to William Chan's book, many kind souls in this forum (http://www.lawyerment.com.my/boards/topic-Malaysia_Business_Consumer_Bankruptcy_Law-0.htm), and being based outside M'sia, till today, I have not been made a bankrupt yet. (So far, I have fought the bank's lawyer - same bank - at the Mahkamah Sesyen Kuala Lumpur 7 times!)

First, you should have an exit strategy, let me share mine so you can get a clearer picture of what I mean:

Back in late 2009, I knew these 10+ banks will sue me soon, so I moved out of M'sia about one year before my first summon. My plan was to be a Permenant Resident in a foregin country, then apply for their passport/citizenship*. In order to do this, I needed to DELAY being made a bankrupt as long as possible to 'buy time' to at least get my PR approved. Once I get my PR, even if I fail to get citizenship, I would rather be stucked in my new country than in M'sia.

*Obviously, not everyone can do this, if you possess a great skill or if you're single and attactive, it is much easier.

Second, if you can't afford to pay the RM700, can you afford to fight the banks? Because chances are, you'll need to travel to the courthouse several times, maybe 5-10 times or more!

Third, you are from Kuching, Sarawak, which courthouse will you be attending?

26 Nov, 2010 17:49:43

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
Your should also check out this thread... http://www.lawyerment.com.my/boards/article-Malaysia_Business_Consumer_Bankruptcy_Law-690.htm
26 Nov, 2010 17:56:26

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
@romeo,
Yup. There is MPH Bookstore at The Spring, Simpang Tiga. Its a very big bookstore and thank god, they still have 3 stocks of the said book the day I bought one.

@1818,
Wow... I dunno how u can handle it. I only have one case with the bank. At first I want to borrow from Ah Long to settle that RM700.00. After I tried to negotiate with the bank, they had opposed to all my proposal including the proposal drafted in the William Chans' book.

The case will be mentioned in Miri Magistrate Court, which is about 1000km from Kuching. Yup, I agree that I have to go to the said court for several time and it maybe consume certain cost.

However, I need to buy time in order to make my financial in stable situation. The business I run is not in good position at the moment and I have plan to improve my financial management. But then, I still can manage to pay for my house loan, car loan and my personal loan. So far, only that credit card got problem.

Is there any possibility for me to apply for adjournment to another 3 months on the ground to look for an advocate to counsel me? And is there any possibility for me to apply to the said court to pay the installment less than the existing as the existing I have to pay RM150 to RM200 per month. Can I apply to pay RM50.00 till all outstanding cleared? What will be consequences if I appeal to the court to agree paying even though at the first place I did object to their summon?

- BRM Chang -
Kuching, Sarawak.

27 Nov, 2010 19:12:03

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
@Chang,

> Your first summon is called the first mention, my guess is, the mention is at 2.00 p.m., am I right?

> When you reach the courthouse, look for a kiosk* to key in your summon number, you will then see a screen with your case details, write down the name of the registrar and whatever details you think are important.

*I am not sure if these kiosks are used all over courthouses in M'sia, if not, ask a court employee where to get the details.

> At the KL courthouse, near the entrance of the registrars' office, there is a window, when this window opens at 2.00 p.m., they pass out pink forms, you're supposed to fill up your details and join another Q (where 99% of those people queuing up are lawyers) to meet the registrar.

> When you reached the registrar's desk, pass the pink form to the registrar's assistant and wait for her to call you.

> When it is your turn, they will ask you to sit down in front of your registrar together with the bank's lawyer, make sure you have your I/C with you, they will need to see it at this time, if not earlier.

> Address the registrar as Tuan or Puan, when it is your turn to speak, say you need time to find a lawyer because you do not agree to the claim amount, in fact, you have already called up more than 12 law firms*, all of them told you they are on ABC bank's panel of lawyers or applying to be on it, so you hope Tuan/Puan would please grant you 3 months to find a lawyer. You should get at least a month to "look for a lawyer".

*To try to delay your case for as long as possible, when you meet the registrar, inform him/her that you have contacted at least 12 law firms. You should call a minimum of 5, tell them (on the phone) you need a lawyer to represent you, you are being sued by ABC bank, write down the name of each firm and the person you spoke with, this way, you can speak with conviction in front of the registrar. Good thing you're not really looking for a lawyer, it is very, very diffcult to find one who is willing to truly help you delay your case, it is like against the law profession's ethics. I know, I have talked to many lawyers.

> My first summon letter from the bank's lawyer was dated 10 February 2010, first mention date was in April, till today, about 10 months later, I am still not a bankrupt yet, many thanks to William Chan's book and the kind people in this forum, otherwise, quite likley, I would have made a bankrupt by now.

> After you get your hearing date (usually 3-4 weeks from your first mention date), submit in an application and an affidavit to apply to transfer your case to the town/city you currently live. (Find out from a court employee when is the last day/deadline you must submit this transfer applicaton and do it about 2-3 days before that date - for maxumuym delay!)

Hope the above helps. For me, when I got my first summon, I couldn't find anyone to tell me what to do, it was extremely stressful and scary experience.

27 Nov, 2010 20:01:02

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) notalawyer
> When you reach the courthouse, look for a kiosk* to key in your summon number, you will then see a screen with your case details, write down the name of the registrar and whatever details you think are important.
*I am not sure if these kiosks are used all over courthouses in M'sia, if not, ask a court employee where to get the details.
> At the KL courthouse, near the entrance of the registrars' office, there is a window, when this window opens at 2.00 p.m., they pass out pink forms, you're supposed to fill up your details and join another Q (where 99% of those people queuing up are lawyers) to meet the registrar.
> When you reached the registrar's desk, pass the pink form to the registrar's assistant and wait for her to call you.

Err... Only KL Jalan Duta courts use kiosk, pink forms and Senior Assistant Registrars, for other Courts in Malaysia, you go straight to the court room to register with the interpreter and you talk to the Magistrate/Judge.

Apply to transfer the case to Kuching Magistrate Court asap.

28 Nov, 2010 06:37:06

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
@1818,
Thanks for the tip. I am not doing my homework to get particular of the said case.

@Notalawyer,
Thanks also for the tip. I have checked the schedule from my friend at Miri. The mention time was held at 9am before Tuan Nasrul Hadi.

I am in opinion to apply for transfer. However, one thing that I would like to ask all of you, in the event that I might lose the case, then does it would incur more cost to me if the application to transfer the case from Miri Magistrate Court to Kuching Magistrate Court appproved?

28 Nov, 2010 11:59:09

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
@1818,
Thanks for the tip. I am not doing my homework to get particular of the said case.

Correction: I am now doing my homework to get particular of the said case. Based on your experience, what are the holes that I can do fishing?

28 Nov, 2010 12:01:17

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
@Chang,

You don't need to worry about the holes yet, when the time comes, you're welcome to use some of mine - compliments of notalawyer.

Besides the RM600-RM700 legal fee the bank will be charging you, each time you meet their lawyer in court, it costs you RM150 (well, at least in KL) but you need not pay on the spot, all legal fees will be billed to you like your credit card statement.

For me, I have ZERO intention to pay the bank, so it doesn't matter if I meet their laywers 1 or 10 times - ever! I am migrating. Already got my PR.

28 Nov, 2010 14:38:51

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
If I am not wrong, that summon to appear in court already costs you RM600 to RM700 but it should include the RM150 for their lawyer to be there.

Since your total debt is only a few thousand RM, now you have to fly to court and likely stay a night in hotel, are you sure you are doing the right thing?

28 Nov, 2010 16:24:26

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
@1818

Thanks for the compliment. I really appreciate it.

Well, at first, I am in opinion that what i did is totally nut or stupid.

However, after reading few books and article on the same issues, it is appeared to me that either in withdraw or lose, I will still have to pay to the bank and still my name will be blacklisted. It is just if i withdraw, i will pay less than if i lose in court. However, the gist is, I really wants to buy time.

Definitely it will incurred cost to me when i depart from Kuching to Miri, especially on food and gas. Luckily I have cousin in Miri for me to stay in for the night.

I wish i know whether what i did is good or bad.

28 Nov, 2010 20:13:40

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
Below are 'advice' from another thread you can weigh and decide for yourself:

1. If you attend court to contest the case, there is a very high chance (not guarantee) you can win, because the bank is not so stupid to pay lawyers RM7k to try to recover RM4-5k.

2. The bank can't bankrupt you because the amount is too small. They will have to wait a few years for it to reach RM30k before they can start legal proceedings to bankrupt you.

28 Nov, 2010 21:40:31

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
@1818,

Thanks. I really hope that the luck is with me on the day.

By the way, can anybody advise me how to request documents from the bank? Can i just issue letter asking for the photocopies of the said agreement and full statement of account? Or I have to apply through court?

-BRM Chang-
Kuching, Sarawak

30 Nov, 2010 22:52:46

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
I have not asked for documents from the banks before, you may want to post your question again here... http://www.lawyerment.com.my/boards/topic-Malaysia_Business_Consumer_Bankruptcy_Law-0.htm

If no one can help you at that above link, you may want to visit a Jabatan Bantuan Guaman branch near you. It costs only RM2 to get real legal advice there, kind of like the RM1 fee govt. hospitals charge M'sians to consult the doctor. But try not to have too high an expectation, like thinking their lawyer will surely represent you in court, they are very selective. But verbal legal advice at their office should not be a problem.

01 Dec, 2010 17:15:07

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
Today I have attend the mention and had apply for adjournment on the ground that I need to appoint an advocate to counsel me. Approved but only been given a week.

Then, immediately, I did filing application to transfer the case to Kuching. Not approved yet. Hopefully approved. However, since the next mention would be next week, so, I have to prepare Defense in case court dismissed my application to transfer the case to Kuching.

Any proposal or advise for me?


- BRM Chang -
Kuching err... now at Miri, Sarawak

06 Dec, 2010 11:03:31

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) notalawyer
Did the judge give a deadline to file your defense? (this is important)
When is the next mention date?
06 Dec, 2010 13:51:00

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
@notalawyer

The judge did not mention to me the deadline for filing but upon advise by a friend of mine, he is in opinion that I should prepare the Statement of Defense which I did yesterday, immediately after I file an application to transfer the case.

I follow the format given by William Chan in his book except I do some alteration. However, I didn't affix the Supporting Afidavit yet and hope to do it tonight so that tomorrow I can do sworn in and post it to my friend at Miri for filing.

I do no undertand why the judge did not give me a month period for adjournment instead he ask me to appoint any lawyer that present in the court that day. I have to admit that I feel ashame with the "advise" by the judge but who can challenge him as the king in the court?

I really believe that I cannot make to attend the next mention which has been fixed by the judge on next Monday (13.12.2010). Even for taking back the documents of application for transfer that I made, I have to ask my friend over there to take it for me what more to say for me myself to attend the next mention day.

In the event that I cannot make to attend the mention day, what would happen to me and my case? Any wise advise? Should I surrender at this point or should I seek an advocate to represent me (which i do not know who and how much would it cost)?

07 Dec, 2010 19:21:58

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) notalawyer
The judge did not mention to me the deadline for filing but upon advise by a friend of mine, he is in opinion that I should prepare the Statement of Defense which I did yesterday, immediately after I file an application to transfer the case.
You should file your defense yet if the judge did not ask you to or set a deadline.
This is because you can use this time to study more and prepare a better defense.
But if you have already filed your defense, then never mind.

I do no undertand why the judge did not give me a month period for adjournment instead he ask me to appoint any lawyer that present in the court that day. I have to admit that I feel ashame with the "advise" by the judge but who can challenge him as the king in the court?
The judge is wrong to tell you that. Which lawyer you choose is entirely up to you.

I really believe that I cannot make to attend the next mention which has been fixed by the judge on next Monday (13.12.2010). Even for taking back the documents of application for transfer that I made, I have to ask my friend over there to take it for me what more to say for me myself to attend the next mention day.
Call up the bank lawyer (or email) and ask them to "mention on your behalf" since nothing much is happening yet on Monday. Then you don't need to go. Normally they will agree to do this for you.
Then call them again on Tuesday and ask them what is the next return date.

09 Dec, 2010 15:44:42

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
@notalawyer

Thanks. Meaning to say what i did for the time being can be considered according to the track.

Not to blame anyone, I have on my own initiative, I have looking forward with the officers at Kompleks Mahkamah Kuching on how to go about not to attend the mention set on next Monday. The respond of not attending is quite scary to me and the officer of court at Kuching did advise me to attend by way of Video Conference which without hesitation I have applied yesterday and walla.. approved. It cost me about RM55.00 for one session.

Now, after reading your reply, I am quite scare whether what I did yesterday is correct and worth. I hope it is not bad and making it more worse.

Should I ask adjournment again since I am only been given a week from 06.12.2010 till tomorrow to appoint any advocate to counsel me. Whether with or without the advocate, I have to be presented on 13.12.2010. What should i say before the judge?

If the scenario become worse, should I continue to contest (which i really want to contest since i do belive that the bank should not proceed with the summon since I did my payment every month, except that, sometime, some of the payment less than minimum, but, hey, at least i did not missed any of month to pay) or should i admit and apply to the court to pay by installment say in RM100.00 per month till all so called outstanding completely settled?

09 Dec, 2010 23:35:21

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) notalawyer
Call the court officers again and ask them about the date of hearing for your transfer application.

When your case is called up by video conference, just stand there and let the bank lawyer speak first.
If the judge ask whether you have found a lawyer, just say you have looked around but cannot find a suitable lawyer yet.
Nobody should blame you for not being able to find a suitable lawyer.

If the judge sets a deadline for filing your defence, just note down the date.
Don't worry, not much will happen on Monday.

10 Dec, 2010 20:23:21

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
@notalawyer

I am unable to attend the said mention via Video Conference as I told before due to the Miri side failed to return back the Borang Permohonan Menggunakan Video Conference form that I faxed over to the court last morning Friday. I thought that by failing to attend, the judge would do judgment in default against me.

Praise to God, this morning, wake up and checking the website, I found out that the case has been adjourned for further mention on 17.01.2011. This mean that I have an ample time to prepare my Afidavit Sokongan for the Statement of Defense that I have file-in before.

How about my application to transfer the case to Kuching? Does it been dismissed due to my absent or does it adjourned to following the adjournment of the mention?

I have tried looking for advocates to counsel for me even I have emailed various advocates and lawyers that I know but very sad, none of them reply my email.

The journey, I believe not yet start but I have already feel exhausted with what I have experienced. The diss-effectiveness of court system where I cannot do filing in Kuching. I need to send over the documents for filing at Miri. Even Kuching cannot accept any payment on behalf of Miri which previously I thought that since they are using the same code, Kuching should be able to accept the payment on behalf of Miri. After all, the monies will be credited / parked into the same deposit. I really don't understand.


- BRM Chang -
Kuching

14 Dec, 2010 17:05:48

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
Already exhausted at this early stage?

Brace yourself, Chang, here's why:

1st trip to file defence.

2nd trip for the mention.

If you lose (I lost my Transfer Application case, majority do, legal cost: RM150, I think)...

3rd trip to file 0263A Reply Affidavit.

4th trip for 026A (Summary Judgement) hearing.

If you lose again (Yes, I lost again, majority do, legal cost: RM150, I think)...

5th trip to file Appeal Notice to high court. (Filing fee: RM100)

6th trip to submit Appeal Record to high court. (Filing fee: RM40 or more, depending on the number of pages.)

7th trip for appeal hearing. (Yes, I lost again, so far, lost 3 times already, legal cost: RM500, this time I am sure about the legal cost, I heard the high court judge said so.)

If you lose again...

8th trip to file Appeal Notice to Appeals Court (Filing fee: RM303 + deposit: RM500, total: RM803, I can't afford to take this step yet, my deadline to do so is 29 Dec, if I miss it, the bank will proceed with the next step, which is one step closer to being made a bankrupt - but I believe in miracles, I beleive in prayers! I believe the banks won't be able to make me a bankrupt.)

9th trip to submit Appeal Record. (Appeals Court, not sure how much yet, I may not take this step.)

10th trip for appeal hearing - (Appeals Court, all appeal cases in M'sia, East or West, are heard in Putrajaya!)

I hope you have an exit strategy, like leaving M'sia forever or have a big amount of money coming your way soon to pay off the banks or something else even better, otherwise...

14 Dec, 2010 19:25:33

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) notalawyer
This mean that I have an ample time to prepare my Afidavit Sokongan for the Statement of Defense that I have file-in before.
There is no such thing as a Afidavit Sokongan for the Statement of Defense. Do not try to file this.
Read the book again.

How about my application to transfer the case to Kuching? Does it been dismissed due to my absent or does it adjourned to following the adjournment of the mention?
I am sure it has not been dismissed, because they haven't even set the date for hearing the transfer application, how can it be dismissed?

I have tried looking for advocates to counsel for me even I have emailed various advocates and lawyers that I know but very sad, none of them reply my email.
Lawyers don't want kuci-meow business.

Talk to the court admin again to get ready the Video Conferencing before the next mention.
Ask them to do a trial run together with you earlier to make sure everything is working well.

14 Dec, 2010 23:12:58

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
@1818
@notalawyer

What will be the consequence if I decide to withdraw from disputing the case in court? Does it mean that the court will proceed with judgement?

18 Dec, 2010 22:54:24

New MessageSued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
Hi all,

I have received "Reply To Defence" from the Plaintiff.

What is my next core of action?

Should i reply to the said "Reply To Defence" since the plaintiff denies my argument and ask me to proof which i intend to file "Afidavit Sokongan" as shown in page 27 of "How to represent yourself in court to fight banks" wrote by William Chan?

- BRM Chang -
Kuching, Sarawak

29 Dec, 2010 17:02:05

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
@Chang,

I just filed a defence (cc debt) at my 20 Dec hearing, I got a mention date (11 Jan) from the judge after she told me that the plaintiff will apply for Summary Judgement (Order26A), and this is what I received via email from the bank lawyer today...

"We write to confirm with you that we have agreed to mention on your behalf on the next mention date which is fixed on 11.1.2011 and for us to file reply to your statement of defence and our application under Order26A."

I wonder why your situation seems different from mine.

Since you owe them only RM4k, it will take more than 6 years before it can reach RM30k, meaning, they can't bankrupt you. I am sooooo curious to find out why you are fighting them.

30 Dec, 2010 21:57:03

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) notalawyer
My advice is not to file any affidavits yet.
Attend the next mention and get the trial date. ( if the bank does not file for Summary Judgment by then )
Prepare a list of documents that you want to use for the trial and prepare a list of witnesses you want to call
for the trial.
05 Jan, 2011 08:03:12

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
@1818,

Thanks for your curiosity. It is not about the figure. But it is about mad to the bank on why I am still being brought to the court even though I have made payment every months. I have to admit that some of the month I cannot pay up to the minimum figure requested but at least I have pay. I did apply to re-structure the debt so that I can to an amount that will be no problem for me to pay every month. Not only my application being put aside, Ambank Miri did propose personal loan to me by the officer named Michael and when I refuse to accept the offer to make personal loan, then he (maybe la) recommend that my case can be solved by brought me to court. If I have RM5000 or RM10,000 by now, still I will hire any lawyer even though from West Malaysia to represent me to fight in court as long as my record can be cleaned.

@notalawyer,
I will attend further mention next Monday (17/01/2011) and this time via Video Conference. What does it mean by "Further Mention"? What would it be?

So far, I have prepare:
1. Original copy of Term and Condition of Credit Card Usage by Amfinance Bhd (the original bank before it merge into Ambank (M) Bhd)

2. My copy of application letter for re-structure the debt (which never being replied by Ambank)

3. Original payment slip of payment being made

4. Text SMS in my phone between me and the bank officer

5. Notices of demand (which having different figure from Statement of Claim figure - that i dispute)

Anything to add?

16 Jan, 2011 00:52:39

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
Based on my own experience with Alliance bank, they don't care how good a paymaster I was before, once I did not make the minimum paymeny after 3 months, they begun legal action, I had a total of RM50k credit limit with them, I only used RM30k, I thought by not using the RM20k balance, they won't sue me.

Fact: Alliance bank was the FIRST bank to sue me! The most important thing to them is, make the minimum payment or we sue you. Just last week, I made them another offer to settle (my offer was RM3k, to test the water), I owe them over RM30k with all the legal costs, finance charges, etc., they counter-offered about a week later via their law firm with, "Pay RM33k".

This means, they do not negotiate, not a single sen discount! If I have not got my PR and have already migrated, I would feel really terrible.

I hope notalawyer could answer your questions. Sorry, I can't.

16 Jan, 2011 23:20:21

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) notalawyer
How did the 2nd mention go?
Did the judge set the date for the trial?
17 Jan, 2011 15:37:12

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
@notalawyer,

How come there is a "Further Mention" or 2nd mention? What is it exactly?

Why would the bank want to go to trial when the amount is so small and they have not even applied for Order26A?

If it is really so difficult to buy a copy of William's book from book stores, why not sell a digital version? This way, more people can be helped, faster and for less, at the very least, save on travelling cost.

17 Jan, 2011 18:12:13

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
@notalawyer

I have attend the Further Mention today via Video Conference. My application for transfer from Miri to Kuching dismissed.

The plaintiff in fact apply for Summary Judgement and agreed by the said judge even though I have objected. The hearing for Application of Summary Judgement will be on 21.02.2011 and the judge did mention to me that by that date, I shall have an advocate to represent me.

@1818
You have a good point over there when you talk about Small Claim. I did ask a few advocates on this and some of them did advise me that the case can be strike out technically due to the claim for less than RM5000 should be heard in Small Claim Court instead of Magistrate Court. However, some say, bank as business entity cannot go for Small Claim Court. I dunno which is which till i get lawyer to represent me.

@notalawyer & @1818,
Any advise for me?

- BRM Chang -
Kuching

17 Jan, 2011 19:10:59

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
bank as business entity cannot go for Small Claim Court

This is not true because a few years ago, I personally made a claim against MAS at the KL Consumer Claims Tribunal, they sent their employee (who is not a lawyer by profession but quite well-versed with the law) to represent them. Lawyers are not allowed to address the Tribunal.

I guess now, you should get ready to receive the bank's Order26A application and their affidavit, if you can't find a lawyer to represent you, you'll need to go thru these two pieces of documents carefully to reply to their affidavit. Make sure you reply to their affidavit before the deadline, I think, that is within 2 weeks of their Order 26A application date, I can't remember for sure, I am sure notalawyer will clarify this.

If you lose at the Order26A hearing and you plan to appeal to the High Court, you can save a trip to the courthouse by preparing the Appeal Notice in advance and file the appeal right after the Order26A hearing (if you lose), I'll post the Appeal Notice I used here if you need it. Let me know.

17 Jan, 2011 19:40:57

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) notalawyer
The plaintiff in fact apply for Summary Judgement..
How come you did not know about this? Did you receive the application papers for Summary Judgement and their supporting affidavits?

I shall have an advocate to represent me.
Do you mean that you are going to find a lawyer yourself or the court is going to give you a free lawyer?

I did ask a few advocates on this and some of them did advise me that the case can be strike out technically due to the claim for less than RM5000 should be heard in Small Claim Court instead of Magistrate Court.
Bank as business entity cannot go for Small Claim Court]

Those lawyers were wrong.
Actually bank can go for small claims court but they prefer not to as they cannot use lawyers there.
They are allowed to use higher courts, even the High Court, but there is a court rule that states that if you use a higher court than necessary, the costs awarded when you win can be set as if it is at the lower court.
That means that if they win and the court awards them RM 1,200 (for example) as costs, you can apply to the court to reduce the costs to become RM300 because that is the costs that will be awarded at the small claims court.

Post your affidavit in reply to their summary judgement here for us to check. Do not wait until last minute.

18 Jan, 2011 09:30:47

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
@1818
@notalawyer

I have not receive papers and affidavits of the application for Summary Judgement yet. I know about the intention to apply for Summary Judgment yesterday when I attend the Further Mention via Video-Conference. I thought that there will be no more correspondences between me and the plaintiff/advocate.

The judge ask me to find a lawyer. He did not mention that I am eligible for free lawyer. Do I eligible for free lawyer for this kind of cases? The hearing for the application of Summary Judgement will be on 21.02.2011.

Can I tell the court that the case should not be heard in Magistrate Court but instead should be in Small Claim Court so that I can make away all those lawyers representing the bank?

Since both of you did mention to me so called thing "The paper and affidavits of application of Summary Judgement", does it mean that I have to wait for the advocate to serve me the copy of the said application in order for me to prepare the reply? William Chan in his book did not mention this thing.

- BRM Chang -
Kuching

18 Jan, 2011 21:30:21

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
The hearing for the application of Summary Judgement will be on 21.02.2011.

Correct me if I am wrong about this, notalawyer...

Chang, you should call up the bank lawyer to find out if they have already mailed you a copy of their Summary Judgment, if yes, when? Ask them to email it to you also, immediately!

Can I tell the court that the case should not be heard in Magistrate Court but instead should be in Small Claim Court so that I can make away all those lawyers representing the bank?

I don't think the Magistrate Court will listen to you on this, Chang, am I right on this, notalawyer? Or can/should Chang apply to the Magistrate Court to transfer his case to the Consumer Claims Tribunal?

18 Jan, 2011 21:56:52

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
@1818,

I did call up the Plaintiff Advocate to ask for the service copy of the Order 26A. Surprisingly heaven, she is not filing yet the application. According to her, she has just mention to the judge an intention for the application. I would consider that the judge has make the rule for hearing on 21.01.2011 prematurely. How come he can decide the date of hearing when filing of application has not been submit to the court?

I am in opinion to apply to the magistrate to transfer the case to Small Claim Court but dunno how. Can anybody advise me on this?

-BRM Chang-
Kuching

19 Jan, 2011 12:01:29

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
Correction:

I would consider that the judge has make the rule for hearing on 21.01.2011 prematurely.

Not 21.01.2011. Should be 21.02.2011. Sorry for the typing error.

19 Jan, 2011 12:04:11

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
@Chang,

Once you get the Order 26A document from the bank lawyer (ask them to email also), type and post all the important points here, this way, notalawyer can help you better to prepare your reply affidavit.

As for your question about applying to the Magistrate Court to transfer your case to the Consumer Claims Tribunal, sorry, I don't have the answer to this question, however, my suggestions are:

1. Call up the Magistrate Court, find out from someone senior there how to apply. Don't have high hopes though, most govt employees are either not helpful or stupid or both!

2. If you also can't find anyone in this forum to answer your application question and if you can't afford a private lawyer, visit a Jabatan Bantuan Guaman branch near you, it costs only RM2 for a consultation with a real lawyer there.

Hope the above helps a bit.

19 Jan, 2011 17:48:59

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) notalawyer
I am in opinion to apply to the magistrate to transfer the case to Small Claim Court but dunno how. Can anybody advise me on this?
You should not apply to transfer the case to a small claims court because 99% your application will be dismissed.
As I mentioned before, the bank has every right to sue you in Magistrates, Sessions or even High Court for that amount.

I would consider that the judge has make the rule for hearing on 21.02.2011 prematurely. How come he can decide the date of hearing when filing of application has not been submit to the court?
If the bank lawyer files it less than 2 weeks before 21 Feb, then 21 Feb will just be a 3rd mention. No hearing.

The judge ask me to find a lawyer. He did not mention that I am eligible for free lawyer. Do I eligible for free lawyer for this kind of cases?
Only criminal cases or poor persons can get free lawyers.
Even though the judge asks you to "find a lawyer", you can appear again on 21 Feb without a lawyer.
This is your basic right in law. Why should you pay RM 5,000 to a lawyer so that he will lose the case?

19 Jan, 2011 18:17:36

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
Hello Gang,

Its quite a long time for me not sign-in in this thread.

I'm tired already. Thats is my conclusion of what happen to me when I eager to dispute to the bank!

Now, this is the what happen to me. Since last month, I managed to get Personal Loan from my Co-op, I have paid sum RM3+++ based on the last bill of credit card sent to me. Yup, I have settled all the balance. By paying all the debts, thats mean I dont owe the bank any single cent anymore. But ... wait...

Suddenly I received phone call from the bank. I still have outstanding of RM9++.00 being payment of legal fees in order to close account! What the #### of this Ambank. I have pay all the debts and again they still chase me for another fees for bringing me to the court!

Am I doing the right thing by paying all the debt or the bank cannot be trusted at all?

- BRM Chang -
Kuching

01 Mar, 2011 20:31:44

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) vkpc
You were stupid not to get a "full settlement letter" from the bank first before paying.
Now if they say you owe them another 50k, you will still need to pay them another 50k.
02 Mar, 2011 17:36:12

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) BRM Chang
Hmm... yup I am stupid enough by agreeing to apply for credit card. I am stupid enough by paying less than minimum. I am totally stupid by trying to contest the bank. And now I am double stupid by paying all debt without getting "full settlement letter" and now, "padan muka i"!

- BRM Chang -
Kuching

02 Mar, 2011 21:53:58

New MessageRE:Sued for CC less than RM4k and seek help to fight bank in court (modified 0 times) 1818
@BRM Chang,

Sorry to hear about your latest problem with Ambank. I certainly won't call you stupid, just a little inexperience. I am sure you have learned plenty by now.

It is not too late to get a full settlement letter for the RM900+ legal costs you owe them.

But I still wonder why you even bother to pay them anything at all - since there is NO way they can bankrupt you in 6 years when you owe them LESS THAN RM5k including legal costs!

Anyway, I hope your life gets better and better from now on!

03 Mar, 2011 18:36:45


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