Lawyerment Discussion Forum
The Malaysian Law Discussion Forum for All |
|
|
|
|
|
 | Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | alecwk | |
| In April 2006, we have signed and took up a tenancy of a shop for 2 years terms for my business. However, within a year the business has failed and we informed the landlord that we no longer could afford to serve the monthly rental and need to shift out early. Verbally, the landlord accepted it and asked we to send him a letter on that, which we did. A month later, the landlord sent me a letter demanding for full payment of the remaining unexpired term, which is a year rental. We called the landlord on why he demand this payment from us after what we have agreed. He changed his mind and insist that we pay him the full term. A month later, we received a demand letter from his lawyer.
Please kindly advise what I should do. | |
|
|
| RE:Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | Volunteer | |
1) What does your tenancy agreement say ?
2) How did you sign the tenancy agreement with the landlord, ie you signed personally or via your company ? | |
|
|
| RE:Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | Busybody | |
| Let assume the facts are that as you presented. You contended the landlord has promised in waiver and later changed his mind. The important question is whether you can prove this to the satisfaction of the court. Quite lucky your landlord would deny this. | |
|
|
| RE:Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | alecwk | |
| Firstly, I must say that we are completely ignorant on the tenancy business and we have got ourselves in this mess.
1. The tenancy agreement say that tenant pay to the landlord a sum equal to the Rent for the whole of the unexpired period of the said term as liquidated damages and the landlord shall be entitled to forfeit the Security Deposits and Utility Deposits paid by the Tenant; and the Tenant shall pay to the Landlord as agreed liquidated damages a sum equivalent to two times Rent for each day's delay thereto...
2. We are doing a small business, my partner and I, it was a partnership, we signed the agreement. The agreement prepared by them as solely protect their interests.
The landlord is in fact a corporation and the tenancy of their property is managed by a management company. We rented from the management company and naturally we correspond with them. When we no longer able to rent the place, we seek the advice of the management company which prompted us to prepare the letter of intention of termination.
After a month later, they send a lawyer demand letter asking for full unexpired term which is about 15k. From the advice of the management company, we then sent a proposal for settlement for 3k being 2 months arrear and one month additional payment plus forfeiting of all our deposit in 3 months installments. They rejected and asked for 7k verbally for payment until June 2007 which we can't afford, (we have moved out since Jan07). I find it to be very difficult to discuss with them, they kept on asking me to send written proposal of settlement and they assigned a sales employee who can't make decision to inform us verbally of their so call "boss" decision.
We are in very difficult financial condition now, we have problem feeding our families since our business failed. I am seeking your professional advise as to,
1. What options available to us?
2. Should we be paying 7k as settlement?
3. What if the the landlord does not accept installments for the 7k and we can't afford to pay otherwise?
4. If the case brought up to court, is the judgment solely based on the tenancy agreement, in which case, will be the the full 15k or there will be considerations to our condition and fairness of the agreement?
5. Could we appeal to the court for lower payment or payment by installments if we need to pay?
6. If the judgment is made that we need to pay in full, what will happen if we cannot afford? | |
|
|
| RE:Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | Busybody | |
| Firstly, I am in no position to give you any professional advice. I can only share with you of my thought. It is entirely your prerogative to do what you want.
I can share your feelings. In a nutshell, I feel that you allowed yourself to be screwed. It is obvious that the management company and the owners are in collusion and playing you like a piano. First, the management company asked you to write in on your intention to terminate your tenancy prematurely. You put the rope on your neck. Next, the legal demand for full penalty. Again, you accepted the management company's verbal advice and made a counter offer with a lesser sum. The general inference or common sense is that you agreed you have breached the agreement. What you are requesting was only for a lesser sum as compensation.
Perhaps it is more to the truth that you seek the management company for their advice on your intention of early tenancy termination. You were advised that they would accept your request. Hence you relied on this representation to make your request in substance, rather than serving the notice. Upon receipt their legal demand for the 15k as full compensation, you relied on the management company's verbal advice by offering a settlement with smaller sum -- equivalent to 4 months of rental amount. Now they insisted on the full compensation, equivalent to 8 months rental. The gap is RM7,000.
Engaging a lawyer to fight out in the court may cost you RM7,000 (very rough). I know this is a very frustrating situation. And you may not necessary win your case.
Why not we try to look at another angle in our brain storming? Let me imagine I am the devil as your opponent. You have shown me that you are a good and naive man. I would persuade you to dig your own graveyard and putting you with no power to fight back. So I would tell you to write in to establish that it is YOUR notice to breach the agreement. Then I demand for the compensation as provided in the agreement. Again, I trap you to request for a less sum in compensation. The purpose is to seal your fate that you already agreed you are liable for the compensation. Now I am in an upper hand. I am playing you like a piano. I have 4 months rental "penalty" in my hand. And I have opportunity to squeeze you more. Under your present mindset, I would probably get my way for more money. If not, I can take it as a personal entertainment to see how the monkey dance. Sick? Yes. They are many such people around and will rip you off if they can.
If we can turn back the clock, could you do it in a better way? I would rather explore along this line: Get the management company for a consultation and aimed for a full agreement for the settlement. Let look from their side, if you are really in a bad situation, would they lose good money to sue you in court knowing that you have no capacity to pay? I doubt so. They would probably too glad that you leave early and not damage their property. Do you know it is a very tedious and expensive process to get a court action in ridding a tenant? Of course, I am not suggest any party should take unfair advantage against the other. I only suggest fair play.
I learned it in the hard way that a fool thinks that the law will always punish him in the strongest term not any omission. Did Halim Saat paid the billions to settle the option? He was let loose despite the govt kept on promise the people he would be forced to pay out. UEM/Renong lost billions on their own follies, why no one paid, except the peopke?
I have no fool proof solution for you. I leave it to you for your best judgment. | |
|
|
| RE:Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | alecwk | |
| Thank you for your kind response. The last time that we spoke to them, they have insisted for 7k and they asked us to provide a written proposal for the settlement. The manager for the management company will then pass it to their CEO for review and approval. Which I think is not good for us. The problem is that, we don't have access to the person who make decision, or maybe the manager whom we have been dealing with is the one who make decision and who is playing us around all the while. I don't know.
Recalling the events leading to signing the tenancy agreement back in Feb. 2006, we did read through the agreement and we were not comfortable with the 2 years term and the clause which provided the landlord the right for full payment for the unexpired term and forfeiting of all deposits in the event of early termination. Before deciding signing the agreement, we told the manager of the management company that we were concern with the said clause because our business is new and in the event our business failed, we need to terminate early and as such we can't accept this clause. The manager responded, "if your business failed and need to terminate early, all you have to do is to write us a letter informing us of you situation, and we can understand that. We will waive the clause." I then asked him, why don't you put that in the agreement of our understanding, in which he replied, "this is a standard agreement and it was done by legal expert and it comes from our head office. We are no lawyers, nor anyone in this office know how to change the agreement. Don't worry, it happened to other tenants before, and we just waive the clause."
We are stupid to have bite the bait and not prepare a letter on our part for them to sign. Anyhow, his words has caused us to decide on signing the agreement.
True enough after almost a year, our business flopped, we asked him once again that since our business has failed, we need to terminate early, is that possible?. The same manager we have been dealing with all the while said, "No problem, all you need to do is to give us a letter, what can we do"
His words, have caused us to prepare a letter of our intention to for early termination to them. The rest is already stated in my earlier posting.
I felt cheated and I am sick with their conduct, not only that they lure you to sign a contract but they stab you as if you are not dead enough. Recalling the events, now I don't feel like paying them a single cent more. Since I am so ####ed off, I don't mind to disclose their information,
The lot in question is
No. A5-12 of Anzen Business Park, No 3-9, Jalan 4/37A, Kawasan Industri Taman Bukit Maluri, 52100 Kepong, Kuala Lumpur.
The landlord is Seal Incorporated Bhd
The management company is Rampaietika Corporation Sdn Bhd
The manager is Henry Law (the guy who make all the promises)
The first time when he make the promise that we can terminate early prior to signing the agreement, beside me and Mr. Henry, my partner was there and one of their management sales staff was there too (he may have resigned, I have not seen his face).
Prior to sending him the intention of termination, my partner was there only.
There are more the 150 tenants at Anzen Business Park, Mr. Henry could have sung his magical sales pitch to them too.
I leave it to all of you out there for open discussion on what the best course to take and let all others who intend to rent at that location to be cautious of the mistake that we have made.
I don't understand why government allows landlords to impose such clause at all in any tenancy agreement in the first place. It is clearly unfair to tenants. | |
|
|
| RE:Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | alecwk | |
|
|
|
| RE:Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | George | |
| Did you accept any offer from the Landlord i.e. 50 cent psf promotion rental for the 1st 6 month. | |
|
|
| RE:Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | Busybody | |
| I can see that you are very emotional believing that you are a victim of grave injustice. Telling you what you like to hear is "kind". If I were you, I would prefer honest opinion, even if it is delivered in a blunt and insulting way.
I am neither seeking for your favour, nor be your enemy. I know the pain of been victimised and yet have to sorrow pride to beg the wrong-doer for forgiveness under circumstances. Call him a coward if you want. But I have to say life is not a matter of black and white. What you want to do with your life I have no interest to interfere with. It is your prerogative.
If I may speak out my mind, your anger may not serve you well, at the best. It may haunt you further. A short moment of feeling self gratification may even bring harm to your loved ones. Is this justified?
Law is not fair. This happened for a long time and still happening. Change the law? Yes, talk is cheap. I accept that I am a small individual and this is beyond my ability. If you think you can, well and good.
When a person is angry, he tends to do things that he would regret later. Naturally, I have not foregotten that anger can be put to good use. Without public uprising, many historical events would not have occurred. However, what seems important is for you to sort out your own "pressing" matter.
I do not have any sure-fire solution for you. Even if I have, I would be very reluctant to deal with you while you are in your angry mood. I do not want to be a hero inviting for trouble. | |
|
|
| RE:Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | Thomas | |
| If you feel that you already victimize, I suggest that you seek lawyer advice and I do believe that justice will stand beside you. Alternatively you write to local press i.e. China Press because they do have column helping all the victim, and I feel this is the cheapest way to solve your problem. | |
|
|
| RE:Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | alecwk | |
| George said, "Did you accept any offer from the Landlord i.e. 50 cent psf promotion rental for the 1st 6 month."
Thank you for your question.
As mentioned earlier, we signed the agreement because we were promised that we can terminate early and get our deposits refunded to us in the event that our business failed. We did not decide to signed the agreement because of the 50 cent psf for 6 months and 90 cents for 18 months. Because it worked out to be 80 cents psf, higher than some who were renting at the same place. We don't think it is a promotion, its a sales gimmick and a misrepresentation with banners hanging all over town that read "50 cent psf" and only to find out later that it was just for 6 months and the balance is much higher than what others is paying.
We were induced to sign the contract with the promise made by the manager who is the rightful representative of the landlord that we could terminate early. He, the manager had made a fraudulent misrepresentation in order to get us to sign the contract, and if they so insist to take us to court, we will file for misrepresentation for damages and rescission. | |
|
|
| RE:Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | alecwk | |
| To busybody,
I believe that you have gone through something much more pressing moment that I am. I have great respect for people like you. If everyone could be like you, the world would be a much better place to live. I always believe on the concept of give-and-take, everyone is trying to put food on their table for their family and when people is in desperation, do not press them too hard. When our debtor failed in their business and in pressing situation, we told them to forget it. I also have the fortune to deal with such understanding people.
If they could listen, I would be most pleased to discuss with them.
If I could beg them and they will understand, I will be most pleased to beg.
Until today, it has been a one way traffic of what they want
we have no one to discuss with, negotiate with or beg for.
As such the above options is completely out.
We are already in desperation on our own accounts, and now they want to drive us against the wall
Since my first posting until now, not much legal advice have been received. So I do some legal research over the internet. I might have a case for misrepresentation. If they do have the pleasure to take us to court, then we file for fraudulent misrepresentation made by them and claim to rescind the contract and damages. Could we do it, I am not sure. Maybe someone could tell me.
The last letter which I received from their lawyer was on 25 June stating that their client does not agree with our propose settlement and demanded that we pay them in 7 days for the full amount, or else they will take action. We have not responded. Now, it has been almost a month I have not heard from him, maybe he is busy preparing the proceedings against us or maybe have not receive any instruction from his client.
Maybe I should send a demand letter to his lawyer stating that his client has made a misrepresentation and seek to rescind the contract and claim for damages unless if they stop pursuing us. It might shake his confident a little of winning this case in the court and advise his client not to pursue further. If we go to court, we might not win, so are they. They should know better. | |
|
|
| RE:Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | Busybody | |
| I afraid you have far too much confidence in yourself knowing the law. "Fraudulent misrepresentation" in law may not want you think you understand. A young lamb does not fear of a tiger does not mean that the tiger is "vegetarian". It is rather the lamb does not know the power of the tiger.
From the surface, the former landlord has shown his intention to take you to court. Court has its rules and procedures. Even the former Lord President (i.e. the No.1 judge) also represented by his lawyer in court. Do you really think you are capable to do it yourself?
I take great skills to get the material facts before proceeding to come up with the legal issue. Even the legal professionals can make mistake. So you think the lay people would do anything better. From your postings, I can see the picture you are the young lamb full of confidence that you are dealing with a paper tiger.
it is your prerogative to do what you want, since this is your matter. Nobody can stop a folly killing himself believing bullet cannot harm him. | |
|
|
| RE:Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | Justicee | |
| 1 year had gone and I would like to know what's the outcome on your case? Did your landlord bring you to court? Please update as I would really like to know and maybe I can help. | |
|
|
| RE:Landlord demand for the whole unexpired term after moving out (modified 0 times) | Truth | |
The truth
1.The tenant gives 1 day termination notice; (this notice given by the tenant by way of slip-in to the office when everybody off duty, without proper hand-over and return keys.)
2.When the tenant give letter, rental outstanding 2 months
3.After “termination notice”, the tenant neglects to accept all calls from office.
4.The Landlord has no choice but to issue a demand letter hopefully the tenant can come forward to settle the issue, at least return the keys to the landlord.
5.The Landlord representative call the tenant several times requesting to settle the matter urgently, otherwise, when this issue forward to lawyer to proceed legal action, then he will lost his power to follow-up the case.
6.The Tenant (Mr. A) scolds the Landlord representative, by saying ……
a)1 day notice not enough ah, you want me to give 1 year notice meh?
b)You sue me lah, my company no money already…
Mr. A also adds some word “Praise to immediate relatives” (do not wan to mentions) ( in Cantonese)
7.The Landlord representative call Mr. M for the last time before hand-over the case to the lawyer, by giving 5 days timeframe, if not, the landlord representative will forward the case to the company lawyer. The Landlord representative does not call Mr. A because two days ago was scolded by him and not wish to get scold anymore.
8.After the timeframe, the tenant did not appear, the Landlord representative have no choice, but to submit the case to the company lawyer to take legal action.
9.Legal letter sent to the Tenant indicate intention to take legal action.
10. Mr. A comes to see the Landlord representative, and the Landlord representative informs he already lost his power to follow-up the case. | |
|
|
 
Copyright © 1999-2011 Lawyerment.com. All rights reserved
Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact | About Us | Advertising Opportunities
Disclaimer - Please Read Carefully
These Bulletin Board pages are intended as a public service primarily to allow non-lawyers and lawyers to share experiences and opinions with other non-lawyers and lawyers. They are NOT intended to be a source of advertising, solicitation, legal advice, self-promotion or disparagement. Lawyerment assumes absolutely no responsibility for postings or their content. Visitors may post questions, comments and replies without prior review by Lawyerment, but we reserve the right to delete any postings (in whole or in part) for any reason at any time.
However, the fact that a posting remains on site NEVER means that it has been approved or endorsed by Lawyerment. By making a posting you are agreeing that the material you post becomes the property of Lawyerment. Lawyerment is a unit of Magnificent Communication. Visitors should exercise great caution when reading this (or any other) Bulletin Board. Be aware that those who post messages may not be who they claim to be. Never to rely on any advice in legal matters except from an attorney you have retained to represent you and your interests. To locate and retain an attorney we suggest you visit our Lawyerment Lawyers' Directory.
Click here to visit Lawyerment.com for 1000's of answers to legal questions. Please read our Privacy Policy and Disclaimer & Conditions Of Use.
Copyright © 1999-2011 Lawyerment.com. All rights reserved
|
